I originally told my recruiters that I wanted to go surface and serve on a aircraft carrier. At some point, they called me and told me that I would have a better chance of getting into the program if I chose subs. Naive, 20 years old Dave responded, "Well, okay. My first choice is to be in the program." In hindsight, they probably just wanted to shift their numbers to meet a quota. Getting accepted for surface nuke doesn't seem to be any different than going submarines.

In the case of the former, I would recommend exploring opportunities with the commercial nuclear power industry before you even think about committing to the Navy. That industry is undermanned, pays well, and is dominated by large corporations that commonly offer tuition reimbursement as an employment benefit.

In the case of the latter, I can only wish you good luck. You probably know a lot about military life from the point of view of a dependent, but that is not the same as seeing it from the point of view of an active duty service member. The problem isn't what the military offers in the way of training (it generally delivers in that regard); the problem is everything else that comes with it: the juvenile work environment, "hurry up and wait," enhanced probability of death at a young age, etc. What does your father think about the prospect of your joining? Just be sure to get a few more opinions from non-recruiters. Make sure you really understand what you will be getting if you sign on the dotted line.

Officer commitments are for 5 years on active duty; enlisted commitments are for 6. I want to make sure you understand that the NUPOC program is a commissioning path--a way to become an officer. I hope some recruiter isn't trying to get you to enlist even though you will soon be a college graduate.

Check out the GI Bill website to find out if it would even pay enough to cover your graduate education. I will eventually get an MBA using my employer's tuition reimbursement program, and going back to school will enable me to collect on the GI Bill money. So, for me, the GI Bill is gravy. It wouldn't cover tuition at a top tier business school even though I qualify for the maximum amount.

Also keep in mind the statistics--only 30% of GI Bill eligible veterans complete a degree with the money. The DoD makes a profit from the service members paying into the fund. That's the blunt truth about why they offer it.

Thanks for the info it was good to have a source not as biased as a recruiter or active duty officer. I am currently a senior in Nuclear Engineering with a 3.7 GPA, I want to get a PhD someday, however my wife and I are not in the most finacialy conducive situation to spend 4 more years in college even with a fellowship. We also want to start a family sooner than later. My father was in the army my whole live so I think I've got a good idea of the stresses it puts on a family. I also feel that the NUPOC program is a life experiance that I would like to have. I just wanted to know your thoughts on serving my 6 years then going back to school once we are a little more financially stable. Thanks again and sorry for the long post.

But you made a very good point, it is important to determine whether that is something you want to do. As you can see my reasons are not that I like nuclear power or the navy. Like my brother told me, being in a ship or a sub for 6 months is no life, and power school and prototype are in the same category. After 5 hard years of studying and working, I feel that what I really need is job that allows me to live a good life. I want to have a relationship; I want to be able to do things I enjoy after work. It seems like the navy will not offer me that.

Dave thank you for responding; do you know if the Air Force side is basically the same thing?

You will not gross over $100k in a year unless you come back to another ship as a Department Head. The military pay scale gives you the base pay rates. If you live outside the continental United States (a.k.a. Hawaii, for submariners), you will get "cost of living allowance" (COLA), which is very significant.

Navy nuclear training has little to do with analytical ability and everything to do with memorizing large quantities of out-of-context information in a short amount of time. I did well as an undergraduate and finished in 3.5 years. I performed as well as any of my Navy peers when it came to operating, but I continually struggled with regurgitating information for written tests. The result is that I basically lived at work. If you do well, you will find the training pipeline tolerable. Otherwise, you will have no life at all. Two enlisted students committed suicide while I was in the "prototype" phase of training, and another snapped. That is the kind of pressure people are under and the kind of environment the military creates. Your recruiter will blame the individuals; don't buy it.

I recently decided to get back into nuclear power. The commercial nuclear power industry pays very well, and my Navy experience is directly responsible for my current occupation. The problem is that I'm doing the same job I did in the Navy, supervising operations, when I want to be involved on the business end of things. Time will tell if I can make this transition smoothly. My Navy service at least got me into the energy industry, so I give it credit for that.

With some years in hindsight and a relatively high paying job directly related to my experience in the Navy, I tell you without hesitation that I would not do it again. People who are getting out of the military usually go through something called the Transition Assistance Program (TAP), which includes taking the Myers-Briggs personality test. My results labeled me as a "utilitarian" personality, an assessment with which I completely agree. The veteran facilitating the seminar emphatically stated that, "We run utilitarians out of the military faster than (something I don't remember)!" I remember thinking, "Wow, I wish somebody would have told me that before I became an indentured servant." That's the bottom line for me--the military was completely wrong for my personality. If you don't like your first civilian job, you just get another. If you don't like the military, you suffer until your time is up. Spending the majority of my 20s doing something I did not enjoy is an opportunity cost I would not pay again.

Of course, your personality might have little in common with mine. For what reasons are you considering the program?

Getting back to your original post, the only true things that are on the table is the leadership experience and the good pay. From the information I have gathered, your other points are correct. For example, civilian nuclear operators “laugh” at the technology and complexity of the navy’s nuclear reactors. There is also the fact that there is no design involved in the program, hence the term “engineering” is being used loosely. Your point on excitement is pretty much common sense, how much fun can you have on a ship or sub? After asking my brother which served in a carrier, he confirmed that.
Now a few questions, did your experience as a nuke help secure a good job? Out of the time you were in the navy, how much was at sea? How difficult was power school and prototype, how much did you enjoy that time? Did you earn close to $100K all the years you were in? Did you ever regret your decision while you were in? Do you regret it now that you are out?

Hey Dave, sorry for the long post but you went through the process and are free to tell the truth, unlike active duty personnel.
Thanks

IA happens because the Army needs warm bodies. For that reason, I cannot make any promises about what you would do as an augmentee. I knew of sailors working communications bunkers in Iraq, working public affairs in Afghanistan (with zero relevant experience, I might add), and manning 50-cal. machine guns on convoy trucks. Your guess is as good as mine these days.

If you go submarines, your first ~14 months as a new officer will be training. Then you will serve on a submarine for about 3 years before you go to shore tour, or you will finish your contractual obligation on the ship if you do not want to go to shore tour. Shore tours typically last 1 or 2 years, but they can be longer for some assignments. The path is slightly different if you go surface ships. If you stay Navy, you will go back for more training and then another sea tour as a "Department Head" after your first shore tour.

The military in any capacity is rough on personal relationships. Deployments occur about every 18 months in the Navy and are nominally 6 months long, but they can be longer. My 2003 deployment lasted for 7.5 months. The submarine we relieved had been driving circles in the Persian Gulf for 10 months!

The good news is that modern submarines are not completely isolated. You can send and receive e-mail, which is a huge quality of life boost. Getting messages from friends and family while you're out to sea is like opening Christmas presents.

There is also a chance that you could be sent to Iraq, Afghanistan, the Horn of Africa, or another such place for 6 to 18 months. Read about individual augmentation (IA). IAs where very common when I was on shore tour in 2006. In fact, I got nominated three times to go to Iraq for a year, but I was not selected from the nominees. I don't know how frequently this goes on these days, but everybody considering joining the Navy or Air Force should be aware of IA because it's essentially a back door draft.

Thanks for the useful website.. I am currently considering joining NUPOC. As an officer that is committed for five years.. how will the tours work out?? How often will you be on a shore tour?? I'm married and I'm concerned about how long I may be gone from my wife.. Also, if I'm on a sub, how much communication will I have with my wife?? I realize that this could vary depending on what type of sub or boat your on but any information is helpful as I think about this very important decision.

Thanks!

Once you're out of the military, there's nothing to stop you from going to graduate school. I spent the last year of my military service on "shore tour" in Great Lakes, IL. A couple of my peers completed MBAs at Northwestern and University of Chicago.

Continued learning on a submarine is improbable. A few of my coworkers tried to complete distance learning courses, but none succeeded.

Getting "old-fashioned relaxation" is not guaranteed, as I wrote above.

There a place to workout on the submarine? Free weights, treadmills.

Say I want to go to graduate school after my time's up; this pretty feasible? Any anecdotes?

Given the above, you think I'll have time/room/allowance to bring textbooks and continue learning while I'm in the sub?

Is it like movies where we'd dock and be able to go into the port city for some old-fashioned relaxation?

Thanks a bundle.

The United States of America would be much better off if we elected people who simply follow the principles of the U.S. Constitution--people like Adam Kokesh.